Friendship & Vulnerability

In this episode, Kiana sits down with two of her best friends, Rachel & Sara to have a conversation around what it takes to build vulnerability into friendships, and have God-centered, sacrificial friendships in a self-serving culture. Kiana, Rachel, and Sara have been best friends for nearly 10 years, and through every season, from marriage, to motherhood, to seasons of joy and suffering, their friendship has been centered around Jesus, prayer, and what the Holy Spirit is doing in their lives. 

"Sara is a wife, mama of two sweet girls with a baby boy on the way, and a lover of Jesus who finds joy in the beauty of everyday life. She loves long coffee dates, meaningful conversations, walks, beach days with her crew, and saying yes to wherever God leads. Whether she’s capturing memories through photography or embracing the beautiful chaos of motherhood, Sara is passionate about shining the light of Jesus everywhere she goes.

Rachel is a wife and a stay-at-home mama to two babies earth-side and one in heaven. She and her family moved back to California from Tennessee a little over a year ago. You’ll usually find her outside on a long walk, at the park with her babies soaking up sunshine, or enjoying intentional time with friends. She believes that the sweetest moments in life are often the simplest ones, shared with the people you love most."

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, welcome to the Fragrance Podcast. My name is Kiana Maxson, and I am so excited to be here. Fragrance is a ministry that seeks to create safe spaces for women to be filled with the Holy Spirit. We host retreats, worship nights, inner healing and deliverance prayer, fun monthly events like our workout and worship event morning routine. And now we have this podcast. Season one is the topic of how to live as exiles in an empire. How do we, as citizens of the kingdom of God, live well in an empire that is in direct opposition to the kingdom of God? And on today's episode, it is such a special one. I had my two best friends, Rachel and Sarah, on to talk about friendship. And I am just so blessed by their wisdom, their love, their friendship in my life, their humor, everything. And I know how blessed I am to have them in my life. And so we're going to have some vulnerable conversations about what it takes to cultivate a friendship in this wild culture, what it takes to pray for each other, and all of the above. And we are so excited. So, buckle up. Hi guys! Today we have Rachel and Sarah, my two besties on the podcast. I am so excited for today. And we are gonna be talking about the topic of friendship, which is so important in community and Christian community. And one thing I was just struck by and have been struck by this year as I talk to women and meet more women, Christian or not Christian, is how rare our type of friendship is and how rare deep, long-lasting female relationships are. It is such a crazy world, crazy times, and just I've been so thankful for our friendship. And so I want to just start off by talking about how we all met. So it's kind of funny. We've all been friends now for what close to like nine years. Well, you and I, Rach, we met at Rock Harbor. Yes. I was walking out the door, you were greeting. Yes. And I looked at her and I said, You are so pretty.

unknown 2:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

And 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

And then we became best friends. Like so quick. I was fangirling because you were the worship leader. And I was in the audience being like, She's so cool. And she loves Jesus. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

And then our first date. What did we do? Did we go to Anthro? I think so. And we went to press, press juicery. We took a selfie together. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

It was like post-college for me, like moving back, starting a job, kind of like, who am I? And then you were such an answer, both of you, but you were such an answer to prayer.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, the rest is history. But yes, we had like nervous first date energy.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I think we all did because then Sarah, we had mutual friends, including you and Rach had just met, and you guys can share that in a sec. But I remember I had just gotten married, and I got married so young, like 21, so young. So no one I knew was married yet. Like none of my girlfriends were married yet. And I remember we had mutual friends on Instagram, and I saw that you just moved here and you just got married. And then Christian and I had mutual friends because growing up in St. Clomini. And I was like, I need to DM this girl because I feel like I need someone who's married to like talk about stuff with. And so I literally slid into your DMs and was like, hey, saw you just got married and moved here. Do you want to get coffee?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

And we did. And then we did. And then the rest is history. And Rach and I met on like a blind date too.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I feel like all three of us meeting is like kind of a dating story, but like as best friends. We're not. Yes. Met at church, slid into DMs. But your brothers, your brothers that you guys are. Yes. My brother worked with her husband. And again, it was like around the exact same time because I had just moved back from college. And um, yeah, we went to got smoothies. And laughter. Trying to remember the first time the three of us hung out, but I'm like non- we started a Bible study at your house.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

And was that the first time we all three met? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

And then we just started hanging out and it just became the sisterhood. Yeah. Truly. But I want to say that friendship starts first with vulnerability. Like you have to just take the risk and like have the awkward coffee date. Yeah. And like I think that we just I think it's so much easier when you're in your college and high school years to just like make friends situationally.

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

But because you're in classes, you're whatever. Or like, but when you get into your older, older years, 21, like 20s, 21. No, but even like 20s, 30s, you have to put yourself out there. Yeah. And you have to like just be like forbidden. I presume you complimented your love. And really wooed you bone. Yeah. Just literally the man. But um one thing that when I was thinking about our friendship, when God put it on my heart to have you guys on the podcast, one thing that came to mind is we're in this season's theme of how to live as exiles in an empire, that obviously comes even when Peter says we are foreigners and exiles in scripture, he's referring back to the Babylonian exile when the Jewish people were taken captive into Babylon, into a culture that was not worshipping Yahweh, into a culture that was full of idolatry, full of witchcraft, full of all of these things that were in direct opposition to the kingdom of God. And the Lord really reminded me of the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. And so if you're listening, you haven't read this, it's Daniel 3. But it's these three guys, they were also friends with Daniel himself. Um, but they basically got in trouble with King Nebuchadnezzar for not bowing down to his golden statue that he made. And so King Nebuchadnezzar's guards took them in, and the king said, if you don't bow to this statue and basically say that I'm God, then I'm gonna throw you into the fire. And most of us probably know the story. They said, No, um, our God will deliver us, but even if he doesn't, we will not bow. And they got thrown into the fire, and God rescues them from the fire, and it's this amazing story. I literally have chills every time I think about it. It's one of my favorite stories of worship in scripture. Um, but I really got to thinking that could not have been their first time saying no to an idol. And I don't think that they could have done that alone. Like if and they could have done it in community, like it says in scripture they live together, they lived in the king's courts, like they were even given Babylonian names. So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are not their real names. And so, even that, like they're thrown into this empire, thrown into a culture that is in direct opposition to the kingdom of God, but they did it in community. Like everything they did together was in community. Say no to idols. And I just thought about our friendship and like how much we've encouraged each other and how much we've said, like, no, like that's not God's heart for you, or like that's not God's plan for you. And we've all walked through different forms of suffering together and encouraged each other, like, no, don't bow to that idol, don't bow to fear. And I just was so struck by that and their story of like that could not have been the first time they said no. And they all knew each other so well. Like it literally says they said in unison, like, we won't bow to this idol. And even if God doesn't deliver us, like, I just think that that comes from deep friendship to know that like I know that if God is asking something, I know your guys' hearts, and I know what you would say. Yeah, and so I'm just so thankful. And like in setting that story and reading that story, I'm just like, man, like that came from a deep knowledge of God, but a deep knowledge of each other and a deep friendship in a culture that's tricky to live. You can't do it alone. No, that's the thing with that's really good, with Christianity, with following Jesus, with life in the spirit, like it can't be done alone. Yeah, and when I think about our friendship, like so much stuff, like I couldn't do, I would not be sitting here without you two. Yeah, like I even think about the start of fragrance, like before I even knew it was a thing. You guys both spoke it over me. And like, even when I was scared and I was like, I don't know, like, I don't know, like what if I can't do it? Like, what if now's not the time? Like, you both sat me down and you were like, No, this is it, like, this is what God is doing, and you need to say yes. And so I'm just so so so thankful. And so I want to just start off by just kind of asking you guys a couple questions of like, what do you feel like in friendship? You can trade off, but like, what do you feel like in friendship is like the most important thing, or like what piece of advice would you give people who are saying, like, how do I cultivate good Christian friendships?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

That's such a good question. Um, I just look at the two of you and I think you guys are the answer to that question. And I think the words that come to mind are just like consistency and vulnerability. I feel like I don't feel like I have to um pretend when I'm with you, and I've shared some like yucky parts of my heart that like I don't love about myself with the both of you, and you guys have encouraged me and been there for me and listened to me and made me feel like validated in how I feel, and then we also just have so much fun together and and make time for each other, and even in the midst of fragrance and traveling and kids and babies, like we still are intentional with each other. Um, and like you said, key, just encouraging each other, I think, in the Lord, even when it can feel really lonely, or like I don't know if this is the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Well, Rich, I do think that vulnerability is key in what you said about like sharing like the yucky parts of your heart. I feel like that is something that we've had over 10 years, like work at in the three of us, because I mean, any girl would say it, I think any person would say it. Three is hard. Yeah, like three is hard because someone feels left out, or so it's like when we've all gone through different seasons of that. Yeah, and I think what you touched on with vulnerability is so good because we've had to work on like just communicating. Yeah, like, hey, like it doesn't even have to be this big blowout conversation, but just like, hey, I'm bummed about this. Yes, and we can talk about it and we know we're not going anywhere. Yeah, and I think that that is, I think it sounds silly, but like going back to like dating, like commitment. Yeah, like we're committed to this relationship, like we're going to be in our 90s together. And it's like lifers, yeah. And it's like if you know that there's like trust and commitment, and like I want the best for you, and I want the best for you, and I know you want the best for me, yeah, then I know when you're communicating or I'm communicating hurt, it's like, okay, I can hear this, I can be mad about it, I can feel my feels and my emotions, but they're not gonna bully this friendship around. Yes, and they're not gonna dictate what happens in this friendship.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yes, and because of like what we've walked through and what we've been through together, we feel even more confident to be like, even recently, like hey, this makes me feel really left out, or this makes me feel really bummed. Yeah, but then we can also celebrate each other so well, and I think we do such a good job of that too. Just that we have we constantly are just celebrating and championing one another.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Yeah, yeah. What about you? Yeah, that was one thing that stuck out to me is just like it's almost I think one of the most important things or things I appreciate the most about our friendship is it feels more like a sisterhood than just a friendship. And in Proverbs it says, like, a friend is always loving, but a brother is like born out of adversity. And I swap that to sister, but I was like, a sister's born out of adversity where we've gone through things in our own life that are like really hard and have always been each other's like safe place where it's like this is going on with my family, or I'm in a season of waiting, or we've always brought our like struggles, our hardships to one another. But then also whenever, like, just like any bun with like a sister or brother, like there's dynamics that are hard, or we've I feel like that's been one of the biggest blessings is I've seen a lot of friendships like not know how to get through those little things, and they kind of like take a step back. And I feel like with us, we've always like leaned in and been like so opposite where we're like, hey, we're like sisters. If I did something wrong, like let's just talk about it and just being honest with one another. Um, and like just having that uncircumstantial kind of love where it's like we're not going anywhere, nothing you say or do can scare me away or be too much. Like, we're sisters, so we're gonna get through this. There's no like there's no out. Almost like a marriage, like there's no divorce, there's no any like we're we're in it. So that's like such a comforting and safe feeling, and such a precious feeling where you don't, no matter what happens, you know, like I'm not gonna lose these people in my life. Yeah, and that's really rare, I think, to have these days. Like you have a lot of friendships, maybe, but people can be lost, or you fade away, or you lose contact over time. But I feel like so differently with y'all, where I'm like, that just doesn't even feel like it's in the cart.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Oh, I was just gonna say something I also love about the two of you that I feel like you guys do really well is you really like invest in I we all invest in each other's other friends too. Yeah. Like I have friends that live out of state, and you have friends that live out of state, and you have friends that live all over the place, and we really like know each other's other friends, which is really sweet too. To feel like when I talk about another friend or you talk about another close friend, you guys care for her just as deeply. Like, I think another just great quality is you genuinely care about um us and then our friends. And I just I always love when you ask how other friends of mine are doing or family or whatever. I think it's a super sweet thing, super sweet thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes, it's like what Sarah says best friends by association. It's like, well, of course, like Kelly, you guys are gonna know what's going on in her life because she's my best friend, you guys are my best friends, and it's like, you know, and so I just love that. And one thing that you said, Sarah, about just like we're not going anywhere and being able to sit in like the uncomfy and like the discomfort of it all. Of like, I think that one thing in our culture is so um honestly just like not biblical is like what's not serving you, get rid of it. Like, oh, this friendship's hard, put up a boundary. Or like, this isn't serving me, I'm gonna cut them out in the name of like self-care or in the name but like Jesus says, like, you lay down your life for your friends. Like that is literally words out of his mouth. Like, of course, that's not to say there are the rare toxic relationships. There are things that you do need to process and like maybe put at boundaries for, but I just think our culture has swung the pendulum way too hard and like cut people off, do things, and it's like, no, have wisdom and discernment in the proximity in which you allow people into your life. But sometimes a friendship won't serve you. Sometimes you're called to serve that friend. Like I've been the needy friend, I've been there where it's like everything in my life is completely falling apart, and I just need people to show up. And that's okay. Like, was that served? What my friendship in that moment might not have been serving my friends, but they were serving me. And I've gotten the chance to also be the friend. And it's like, I think that I think our culture swings way too hard and like the self-protection, self-care. It's like, yeah, self-care is great, but like I feel like scripture talks way more about caring for others, loving your neighbor as yourself. Like late on your life for your friends, and then just yeah, leaning into conflict. Like any relationship, I feel like thrives when you don't avoid and back away, and you just lean in and you say, I don't care how hard this is, I don't care if you hurt my feelings or like I accidentally hurt your feelings, like we're getting through this, like we're just gonna get through this, and like that's just the way that it is, you know. It's like Ben and I in our marriage always say to each other, like, we're on the same team. Yeah, and it's like we're on the same team, you know, and I just love that.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

Yeah, that's so true. What you were saying too about like self-preservation mode, I'm always reminded I feel like as believers, we don't have to be that way because like God protects us, He protects our feelings, He He takes care of our needs, and so it's like even when you're feeling any kind of way in the flesh, like we don't need to self-protect in that way because like we have God, and um, yeah, just like what you said, just with friendship, it's you you're friends with people through all different seasons of life, and friendship isn't about you at the end of the day, it's about loving someone else, and it can bless you, and that can be amazing, but yeah, it's just yeah, it's not just for you and what you can receive, it's what you can give, and um yeah, it's just a cool opportunity, I feel like, to love people like God calls you to love them too.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

When it's sometimes not easy or it's sometimes hard, or yeah, I'm rambling, but well, and one thing I think that you guys do really well is create space for everything. Like last night when I was kind of praying into God, what should we talk about? And he reminded me of this memory, and it was during a season for me where Kalina had just quit our band after 17 years. I was in like just deep grief. I also was dealing with some like really traumatic personal stuff in my life, and life just sucked, like it was so hard. And we all, I think you were you living in you were living in Nashville and you were out to visit, and we all sat down for coffee, and the three of us hadn't been together in a while. And we sat down, we had none of us had shared how we were doing it, but I think Sarah said first she shared that she was pregnant. And then Rachel immediately goes, Me too. And it was this like huge moment of celebration. But I remember feel like literally, like I was like so happy for you guys, but my life was in shambles at that moment. And I remember thinking, like, you know, when you're just sitting there, like, if you're like, if I open my mouth, I'm gonna cry. Like I was just like this, like it wasn't that I wasn't happy for you guys, it was like, whoa, my life's in shambles. My two best friends are pregnant, experiencing this like intimate thing together. Like all these feelings of like, I'm gonna be left out. Like, all of this stuff just like hit, and I remember just being like, ah, like so, like, truly, like, not it wasn't diminishing my excitement for you, but it was also this I was holding so much grief and trauma in my own life. And I remember like we celebrated and we chatted, and then there was after about 10 minutes, Rachel just looks at me and she was like, How is this hitting you? Like, are you okay? Like, this is a lot, huh? And just your guys' like attentiveness to where I was at and like ability to be like this is the greatest thing, also key. Like, we understand, like, your life is literally like messed up right now. And then I just remember just sobbing. And I remember like I was trying to tell you guys, like, it's not that I'm not happy for you, and you guys are like, Stop. We know, like, we know, we know you, we know your heart, we know you're happy for us, but like, yeah, this sucks. And I remember just sharing, like, I'm so disappointed with my life. Like, I am so let down by God. And that was seriously one of the most impactful moments for me in our friendship. I don't even know if I've shared that with you guys before, but I was literally crying on the way here, like thinking about it, because like the ability to have two best friends who can do that, like in a moment where their lives are like answered prayers, and I'm sitting here, like, where are you, God? And just I felt so seen and known. And so I just want to affirm you guys in that and just say, like, that is truly the key to friendship to be able to hold both celebration and joy, and that is impossible without Jesus. Like, that is one thing I want to say is like the reason our friendship thrives and we get through like tumultuous seasons and turbulence and grief and joy and all the things is because Jesus comes first, yeah, yeah, and like our identities are in him, and like only in the kingdom can we hold both grief and joy like that.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and that makes me think too, like it gets me like choked up, but then thinking about you and like us finding out that I'm gonna like sob through this whole thing, but us being pregnant at the same time, and then you going through loss at the same and then celebrating me still like in the midst of your pain and like throwing me a shower and just like like you said, Keith, like only with Jesus can you do both, but um just the highs and lows of like doing life with the sister and being like going through the same thing at the same time, but then it going so differently, but you being so like loving no matter what. Um that what that's always stood out to me, like obviously in our friendship, where I'm like, wow, like some yeah, there's just no words for that where you like there's so many things you face with friends and just being in different places, but at the same time, it's like it's so hard to put into words, but well, it's it's totally for all of us, just the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Like, I think you and I being able to be like, we know key, we love key, and the spirit being like we've walked through so much together, like we know this is a lot to carry, and there's been things since then that I felt the way Keannis felt, or you felt the way Keannis felt. Like, we I think because we're constantly praying for each other and checking in with each other and asking each other, like what's the Lord doing in your life, or what's something we can pray for you for, or what's going on right now, like because we're so in the word kind of together, but far apart, like we're not always in proximity together, we were were able to see that. And then I I mean, you guys are my girls, like we're we're not going anywhere, and so we still key and I obviously with the loss, like still wanted to celebrate you, and and God's continued to work obviously miracles through that, but it was such a a tender time too, and then um Rach, and yeah, just to affirm you your ability to celebrate Sarah's pregnancy after going through that loss. Like, I just remember like your due date was like yeah, we were like a week apart, a week before, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

And just I know that formed you in Christ's likeness, like nothing else. Like your ability to like hold the loss, and also like it took a grind, but it I know it took like grit, and it took like trusting that God's grace is big enough and his provision is big enough to celebrate someone even in loss. Like yeah, I admire that so much, and I know that has kingdom effects, and that like that's going to affect your eternity. I just know. Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Yeah. I remember after the the shower I slipped in C2, I was like so grateful.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

But I remember going to my car and I just started like sobbing because I just wanted it to be for you too. And I think when you like do life with your best friends, you just you're happy for things in your own life, but like there's nothing you want more than for like your friend to get to experience that too. So just caring both, but and then just like looking at what God did after.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

I remember like having that moment where I just like started sobbing in my car just because I was like so heartbroken, but just praying that like and trusting that God had like was gonna bring like new life out of this and do something that like I didn't see, and just looking at where we are now and so much new life, and yeah, uh yeah, so much to celebrate of. But yeah, just it's crazy, just the both and yeah of yeah. I'll like never forget about that in my life.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah, such a sweet, yeah, tender time.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah. And I think too, like one of the one of the things that I think makes our friendship just like flourish is the fact that we pray for each other. Like I think it's like I know I'll get texts from you both throughout the week. Like, was journaling this morning about your music career, or like was generally this morning about fragrance, or you and Ben. And just knowing that like we have friends who are willing to like go before the throne of God and like fight on my behalf, and like I like know stuff going on with you each personally that like I'm fighting for on your behalf, and like not only does God hear those prayers, but it also cultivates a tender heart towards each other. And I think like when you're constantly praying for someone, that's why I think it's so important. Like, this is kind of a side tangent, but like if you're dating someone or engages someone who doesn't share your faith, like that is huge because if you're not able to pray for your spouse, like, or your spouse isn't able to pray for you, like that's what builds intimacy and relationships, like and so it's like I think the fact that we are constantly praying for each other, like texting how can I pray for you this week? Like, even through different like phases, like I feel like in this season we probably all see each other the least, but we're no less connected, yeah. And like when you moved to Nashville for a few years, like I feel like we didn't skip a beat because we were always praying for each other and we knew the intimate places in our hearts that we shared with each other, and even the heart, and it's like it just goes back to like you have to be willing to share the heart and then the heart, yeah. And I think that that is like such a key, but yeah, I think prayer honestly is what glues our friendship together.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Yeah, totally, yeah. So enraged never miss to beat, even when you're in Nashville, even oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Oh my gosh, that is the funniest thing to do. Like, I would say every time those are new socks, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Yeah, so it's like in the prayer, and the silly things too of like, what did you do? Like you we never missed to be with all the little stuff to see it all.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Well, and I think something that you guys do so well is even like in different phases of life. Like, obviously, you guys are both in a really similar phase of life, right? Like, two kids, another one on the way, two under two. You guys are like in it with motherhood, but you still make space for me. And like our conversations, of course, your kids come up because they're your life. But I never feel like, oh, I'm like feeling left out because all they talk about is their kids. Like, that's not at all it. Like, I feel like you guys have both truly kept your identities solid in who you are, and your kids are an amazing addition to your life, and so much of in an addition to who you are, but you've done such a great job, and I admire that so much. And like, motherhood is not Rachel, is it's like you are not a mother, like a mother is part of who you are, and I just really admire that, and your ability to still like care about things that I'm doing, and um that's just been really special to me, and even my ability, like Rachel and I the other day were sitting and chatting on the couch, and she asked me about kids, and I was just like, No, we're not ready yet, and even just me, I literally just got to share, like, yeah, but sometimes I do feel embarrassed because like so many people around me have kids, and Ben and I have been married longer than most of my friends. We're coming up on nine years, and that has not been what God has for us yet. And I literally just got to cry and be like, and I feel embarrassed. I feel I feel like a kid, like I feel like you know, behind in all those things. And you just encouraged me, and you were like, No, like here is all that God is doing, and I think that's so special about friends is they can see what you can't, and they have God's point of view into your life, and can like you've always you both have always done that. Like, if I'm crying or I'm sad, like I can't even tell you how many times this podcast is sounding like my life is like just this sad thing. It's not God is so good that there's been really hard seasons, yeah, and I've been like crying on the couch, and you guys have both like bird's eye view zoomed out and been like you've cried with me and you've never once diminished my pain, but you've always been like, but look what God has done and look what he's gonna do. Like, you've both had heavenly vision for my life, and that comes because you pray for me. Like when you pray for people, you get heavenly vision for their life. And you guys have always had that for me, even with fragrance, even with my music. Like, there's been times I've been so disappointed, and even with personal things going on, you've always said, like, I think that's fear talking, or like that's not what God would say, or and I think that that just that comes from intimacy and it comes from praying for each other, and like I think that is so huge in friendship is to just be asking, like, God, what is your vision for their life? Um, and that's just something that I've always experienced from you guys is God's vision. Like, never once have I felt selfish ambition in our friendship, and like when you're speaking into me, like, no, it's never been about you. It's like, and I hope that you feel the same.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I was just gonna say, I feel like, and I know Sarah would say the same thing, like you do that for us so much. And I just think back to when we moved back here from Nashville, I was kind of just super pregnant and going through a lot of emotions and believing these lies, even about our friendship, and both of you and and Keith, since you were speaking, but just spoke so much truth over those lies and really encouraged me in who I am as a friend, and Sarah being like, Oh, we're not going anywhere. Yeah, and that was like a super vulnerable side of me that I think I wouldn't share with most people, but because you two I know truly are like family, the sisters I don't I didn't grow up with sisters that I never had. Like, I I do genuinely feel like even if I share this really embarrassing part of my heart that like I know isn't true, but I'm like believing it's true. You guys just speak truth into that and shut down those lies, and that's just so like beautiful and so important.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

And it just goes back to the vulnerability piece of like, I truly think like being able to share, knowing no one's going anywhere, and knowing that there's no judgment. Yeah, yeah, like I think that is huge because I think we all have people in our lives where we're like, I feel like you're judging me all the time, and it may or may not be true, but I've never felt that with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

And I think there's discernment, obviously, in like who you share vulnerable things with, and you guys have obviously earned that trust in me, and we've earned the trust in each other to kind of share every single thing with. But finding those people that you can be like, I can share this embarrassing part of me that I'm not really proud of, that I'm praying through, that I really want God to grow in me. Yeah, but I know you guys will encourage me in that because we've walked through so much together, and so I think there's discernment in you know who you share things with too.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Well, and I think that is such a good point, Reach, because the enemy does not want friendship. He doesn't like even leading up to this podcast, I experienced so much spiritual attack, and I'm not one to like think there's a demon behind every rock, but yeah, there's also a very real spiritual realm, and there's a very real enemy, and there are very real demons on assignment trying to cut off intimacy, friendship, relationships. And I think that the enemy has tried to rob, kill, steal, and destroy this friendship, and he won't. Yeah, that's the thing. Like, same thing with me and Ben's marriage. Like, we would say to each other, like, the we the enemy sh he won't win. That's it. The victory's been won, and we need to just stand in that, even in the midst of conflict. It's like, nope, even though this is weird right now, the enemy's not gonna win. Yeah, he won't get it. And I think that he will get you to try to keep things in the dark, like he will try to convince you if you share this thing, they're going to judge you, they're going to leave you. Like, if you share this thing, your friendship will never be the same. And it's like, it's so funny in the kingdom because everything the enemy tries to get you to believe, it's actually quite the opposite. The conflict we've been through has made us stronger and has made us been like, I know you. Like, even the other night, something happened, and like I ran into Rach and she could like see the look on my face. And she checked in later and was just like, it was nothing you did, but it was just like she could tell I wasn't okay when I ran into her. And like she just checked in and was just like, hey, like, how was that for you? And that was just so like I just felt so loved and like just diving into the discomfort. But the scripture I'm reminded of is um, it's I'll read the whole thing, but it's really the second half. But in James 1.13, it says, When tempted, no one should say, God is tempted to me, for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their sinful, um, sorry, when they are dragged away by their own evil desires and enticed. Then after desire is conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin when it's full grown, gives birth to death. And the thing that stands out to me in this scripture is it says, each person when they are dragged away by their sinful desires, then it gives birth to sin and gives birth to death. And it's like the enemy, even if it's sin or if it's just sharing something vulnerable, whatever it is, he wants isolation. And it's like he will drag you away. And the Holy Spirit will always push you to community. Like, even like with sin, like when we confess our sin, there are I just heard this study that literally your neural pathways heal when you confess sin. Like God literally heals us through confession and vulnerability. And I just think that that is so beautiful because anytime like you have a thought that's like leaning, pushing you towards isolation, you have to call that out as the enemy because God will never call you to isolate.

SPEAKER_04 32:42

Yeah, that's so good. This is like one kind of random thing, but I was like, I have to mention it because I feel like somebody maybe listening, like has either is in a season where they're like don't have friends or they're crazy. Yeah. I was like, I have to I was like something in me. I'm like, I have to say this because I know I was like, I there was a season of life where like I grew up in Chicago, but then lived in Texas and then moved out here. The only person I knew in California was Christian and his family. I had no friends, and I'd come from a place of always having really great friends, great high school friends, great college friends. And I remember just like being in my room. I was living alone by myself for a year in Dana Point, and I just was like crying one day because I was feeling particularly lonely, and I was like, I just like this is humbling for me because I don't like have I mean I know I could call like a friend in Chicago or whatever, but like I don't have any friends here, and I just remember praying. I was like, God, I don't need a lot of friends. I want just like if I could just have maybe one, maybe two friends. And I just remember praying that and I look at life now and I'm like, you guys, like without a shadow of a doubt, were the one, maybe two, like you were the two that like I prayed for, and it truly like God's brought so many other friendships and has done more than I could ask or imagine. But like the that specific prayer I'm reminded, like when I prayed that, and also from the time of when I prayed it to probably when it was answered, I can't even really remember, but it it could have been like six months to a year between the time that we actually met. Um, but just even that season of waiting and praying for something true and praying for a true like sisterhood and friendship and like having that be a desire of my heart, and then waiting on the Lord for that, him delivering beyond, like, you know, way better than I could have possibly imagined, and then seeing our friendship of like all the different seasons we've walked through. I think the world tells you like find a mom's group, find uh only even like in the way we first, you know, connected. It's like find someone that's married, right? And which there's nothing wrong with it. Right. But I just am reminded, I was like, you know, you don't have to pick your friends just because of the season that you're in. And you guys actually don't have to be in the same season. Because you're that's not gonna last long. Right, like seasons change quick. Yes, like we happen to be like linked up, like like you were married, yeah, Rachel wasn't, and then now it's like we're both moms, right? So it's like if you were to like live by that rule of just like keeping the friendships based off of the season you're in, I just feel like God has so much more for us, and we get that perspective, we get to speak into one another's lives, or we get to like I think of the Balboa walks, like when you were praying for a husband and we're like, we know this sucks, like because you want it so bad, and it even is like even harder because we have it, and you like but like we can just like just testify to God's goodness, and like, anyways, just walking through that together and then seeing God's faithfulness in that. So I think it's so cool, and like just a random reminder of like, I have friends who are single, I have friends who are married, I have friends that have two kids that have four kids. Um, it's like never lean in or lean out based off of their season because God has so much we can learn through walking with other people that are in different places, and also like if you need a friend, yeah, pray for that friend. And God like loves to answer that prayer. Yeah, and of course, again, like you said, the enemy all the more I know he's after our friendship at times because you guys are literally what I prayed for, and God gave me you. So if you were given from God, like that's something that the enemy wants to also take. Yes, so it's like I can see his hand, and yeah, it's just like because it's so like evidently from God, and God's gotten so much glory from I think our friendship, it's of course something that the enemy wants to try to take away from all of us.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

So yeah, anyways. Well, and even Sarah, like to your point of different seasons, like I think two things about that. One, like, we're not supposed to just be in relationship with people who are exactly like us. Like, I'm getting so much wisdom from motherhood from you guys. And then number two is name it. Like, name the season. Like, I know so many friends who are in transition. Like, I was just talking to a friend who's single and like one of her best friends is not only married and now is a kid, and she's like, Well, I feel like there are two life phases ahead of me, but like to just name it and openly talk about that, like, hey, like, I don't know what it's like to be a mom, but like, how can I support you in this season? And like just being vulnerable and talking about it. Like, I think that is just so key. And yeah, not letting go, like, because the enemy once again will tell you, like, this friendship isn't serving me because they have a kid now, and like whatever. It's like, yeah, it's like, no, like then if you feel like they don't get it, tell them. Yeah, then help them understand, you know. It's like, and again, like, yeah, it's like if you don't feel understood, name it. Like, I think just the enemy wants to just keep things in, and it's like, just name it. Like, hey, I'm feeling misunderstood in this situation, or like, hey, this is really hard for me that you have what I want right now. Yeah, like how beautiful is that? Yeah, like, oh my gosh. And I feel like that's what our friendship is. Like, that's literally been like just like walking through hard seasons, and there's so much beauty, and like I would take a thousand more hard seasons with all the three of us because of how beautiful it is. So I'm just so grateful. And one thing I just wanted to read for those listening is um there's this C. S. Lewis quote, um, and I want to read it because it just really speaks to vulnerability, and I just hope that this uh encourages those who are listening and entering into relationships if being vulnerable is something that scares you. To love it all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries, avoid all entanglement, lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, emotion, emotionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, and irredeemable. To love it all is to be vulnerable. It's just that's the key to relationship. Well, before I let you guys go, there is a question that changes a little bit each week, but I wanted to ask, okay. So Jesus in the flesh rolls into town into Newport, Hosmea St. Clemeni, and he wants to come over for dinner. What do you cook him? Oh.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

I pick up your sourdough. You text Kidd and I need your sourdough, and that's all. Just bread. No, just bread from a bread. Um, that's such an interesting question because cooking is a topic of conversation in my life right now because it's really hard to do with two small children in my caution. I mean, easily.

SPEAKER_04 40:05

You're making it, or are we picking it up?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

You can pick it up, or you can make it, but listen, like, what do you think the Lord would want?

SPEAKER_00 40:10

I mean bread and fish. Bread and fish. Fishes and loaves.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Salmon in my salmon.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

I do feel like your sourdough. If you guys don't know, Kiana makes a main sourdough. I actually went to the farmer's market this past weekend and bought sourdough and said out loud to my husband, like, he's so much better than his mother. Yeah. So we could even say all of us aimed at your dinner. Sarah and I ate pretty much an entire look.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

That would be what I would want to be. But I don't think I'm anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

If you guys, if Jesus came over for dinner, first of all, if you didn't invite me, I would be so offended. Second of a moment. Second of a moment, if I were to make bread, I would get to come. I would invite myself. I'd be like, oh, but I'm just dropping it off. I made the bread. Okay, so let's say takeout then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Like England restaurant. I mean, I love Italian, like a good pesto pasta with a lot of Parmesan cheese. We did that last time.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

That pasta place from Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Yes. That was so good. So good. Yeah. Maybe we'd go to Nashville. If it was my husband answering, he'd say some barbecue.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Yeah. Sean. That's good. I think maybe this very St. Pomini specific South of Knicks. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

I think that Jesus would go there. I think he'd go there. I think he'd like it.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

He'd like the vibes. But I also could do takeout. But no, yeah, just good Mexican.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

That's coming from two girls who are strong suit is not cooking. Yeah, yeah. No, literally. What would you think of? I think like I would think of it.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

I did make rice krispies yesterday that were kind of good with sprinkles, I maybe.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

I think Jesus would think you'd be like, Oh, didn't mean that's cute. Well, thank you guys so much for being on today. Love you guys so much.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

Love you. Love you. Love ya.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Thank you for listening to the Fragrance Podcast. We'd love for you to subscribe, like, and write a review for this episode. Fragrance is a 501c3 nonprofit ministry, and your donations are tax deductible. If you'd like to support Fragrance, you can click on the link in the episode info.